European Danes larger?

[Chris James]

I am deciding to buy a Great Dane, but I want
a Great Dane that has a bloodline that is big in
height and weight. Many of the Great Danes I see
throughout the U.S. are tall, but very skinny.
The Great Danes I see who are from Germany and
other overseas countries are very big and muscular
with ears like the Mastiff instead of straight
and pointed. If someone could help me locate one
of these type of dogs I would gladly appreciate that.

Sincerely, Chris James

[jpy]

This isn't what you asked for, but I'd advise you to read this article "The Romance of the Boarhound" before you go any further in considering a purchase of a "Euro" Dane:


http://www.home.flash.net/~dby/boarhound.htm

[Carol]

If you purchase a dane here you don't have to crop the ears if you prefer the natural look. I have seen several german imports that were not as good as our danes. More substance, yes, but the fronts and rears were horrible and size is not quality. Don't assume those big hunkers you see in the pictures are what the standard calls for here or there.

[LizK]

Chris,
First - about the ears. You are probably seeing uncropped dogs in Europe. In some countries cropping is banned while others still allow it. In the US more and more of those who show prefer now to leave a natural ear as is done in many European countries. Some like "the look of eagles" that a cropped dog has while others like the softer appearance of a natural ear. Either way, the ears will need to be taped to stand/fall properly.
Your quest for size might be a little misguided. In spite of what one hears, bigger is not necessarily better in giant dogs and in fact can often have it's own set of problems. Much rather a dog of reasonable height and weight for it's breed, than one overly tall, slab sided, cow hocked etc. Very, very few of the overly large ones are correct and without problems. And much added weight results in even more problems. Just ask the Mastiff people. I am one who prefers a chunky dog so I do understand your wanting that, but coupled with extreme size might be something you should rethink.
Now about the Danes in Europe as opposed to those in the US.Having owned dogs from Germany, England and the US, I shall offer my thoughts since the "types" within each country are not new to me - and I do think there "are" differences. I recently was sent photos of Danes at a large German dog show and find that while they are a somewhat more stocky, shorter dog than their American cousins, they still have a long way to go to improve their really dreadful rears - which haven't changed for the better in the last 40 years. I like the heads since I have always been partial to the German type head of today compared with the more refined head one finds on the Danes in the US for example. Years ago the German dogs also had a more refined head. The shoulders on most of the German dogs I saw were good and the bone and substance, but oh those awful flat feet which lots had. Many German kennel dogs are kept on concrete too which may have something to do with that. German dogs certainly have a sharper temperament than their US counterparts and it is encouraged in the breed. German breeders feel that the US Danes are soft and wishy-washy. I do think overall they are less sharp than the average German dog, but there are still many strong, tough, sharp working dogs and lines in the US
I really do think the US Danes as a breed have tended toward a taller, leaner dog overall in recent years.Less bone than I saw 30 years ago for sure. A more refined dog all round. The Harles in the US have shown in recent years some dreadful fronts with knuckled over front legs - chair legs, and straight shoulders. Harle heads I think have not kept up with the better quality head type of the Fawns and Brindles. Many have little lip and less stop. And I still see many low tail sets which has long plagued the colour and still many roachy backs. My feelings on the trend toward a whiter and whiter dog will be left for another thread.
I was invited to a recent Dane specialty and was actually shocked at what I was seeing overall. Many very lightweight, whippety,too much tuck-up, rat tails. Lots of Greyhoundish heads. Too harsh? I don't think so. I happened to run into a friend I had not seen since we attended shows in the early 60's and she felt much the same way. Interestingly, we both felt that one of the Veterans was also one of the best dogs there and he was 11!
No doubt about it, the Dane classes seem to lack the excitement of years past when I remember Open Fawn being split into two classes because of the amount of entries. And you could find many dogs in the open classes who were worthy of taking home the points that day. I am not seeing that now. At least not at the shows I have attended lately. And in the US I do think that there trends toward a different type of dog on the East coast as opposed to the West. Maybe thats another thread too.
Blacks in the US as a colour however, seemed to have made huge strides in recent years and I did see some nice ones. Blues also. At the risk of upsetting some fanciers of the colour, I might add that I think those in Blues might want to pay a little more attention to temperament in the US.
I think however that English Danes have improved immeasurably in the last 30 or 40 years. After the war they were in sorry state with very few left, many having been put to sleep for lack of food etc.
With the importation of some wonderful dogs from Germany and the US, they seem to have found a happy medium with a very nice dog sporting the best from the East and West. I am truly delighted to see so much headway having been made in the breed at home and in some lines the Danelagh's influence was very easy to see even generations from the original imports. Just shows how good breeding can leave it's mark. When I brought all my original English Danes to the US it was very apparent that they lacked the quality of theAmerican Dane at that time, but now I think the English Danes can compete well anywhere in the world.
One must remember Chris, that each judge, breeder, owner etc. has their own idea of how their ideal Dane should look and how they interpret the breed standard for their country. Also what faults they find less or more offensive and what they can live with in their line.
I have not compared standards in a long time, but just offered here some of my personal thoughts on the Danes in three areas of the world.
Liz