Online breeders opinion poll

[Carder]

i copied this from below as i thought her answer to 'how did you pick your breeder" was pertinent to this current thread. (jpy)(carder won't mind hopefully)
Posted by Carder on 07/29/00:
IP: 205.188.192.182

After doing much research on Great Danes, I began contacting breeders. At first I was "cold calling"--just calling or writing to breeders who advertised puppies for sale or a litter expected. I soon found out this was the WRONG way to go about it. The breeders I contacted in the first few months of my search (which I named DaneQuest 2000--LOL!!) weren't the kind of breeders I wanted to buy a puppy from. They didn't seem too concerned about the kind of home I would provide or whether I knew very much about Danes. They mainly wanted me to know they would "ship anywhere" and they would take VISA. I stopped searching and decided to go about it in a different way. Instead of looking for puppies for sale, I decided to attempt to establish a relationship with an ethical, reputable (among people who are hard to fool) breeder--whether or not she had puppies on the ground or even expected to have a litter anytime in the near future.

A breeder should be more to you than the person you buy your puppy from. She/he should be someone you could call in the middle of the night with a concern or a worry about the puppy they've helped bring into the world.

Jill Swedlow has a list of recommended breeders. I checked that list and compared it against the Top Twenty list on the GDCA website. Two stud dogs caught my attention: Ch Penadane Daynakin's Solitary Man (Troy) and MeadoWood's Ultimate Oliver. I wrote to Georgia Hymmen, who owns Troy and Gisela Wood, who owns Oliver, and aasked if either of them were expecting any "kids". They each gave me a list of breeders who were expecting litters out of their boys. From this list, I began my next breeder search.

The way I decided upon my breeder wasn't so much the way she answered my questions, but the questions she asked me. She wanted to know WHY I wanted a Great Dane. She gave me a Great Dane pop quiz on the phone. (I passed, which was amazing considering that a few months earlier I knew NOTHING about Danes) She asked for references, including the phone number of my vet, which I provided and she contacted them ALL. She asked for pictures of my house, inside and out and especially a picture of the fence surrounding the yard. She asked for a ballpark figure of our yearly income so she would know if we could afford a dane and if we'd be able to pay for emergency gastroplexy if needed. She asked general questions such as "How do you housetrain a puppy?" I was so impressed with the way this woman cared about every detail, I knew she must take wonderful care of her Danes and must do a good job raising puppies.

So here I am with my new little fawn girl, Journey. She's one of Troy's kids and she's beautiful, healthy, and a show prospect and guess what else? She cost about half what I expected to pay.

I have a couple of tips I'd like to share: Don't get in a hurry. Take your time and be picky. NEVER interview a breeder while puppies are licking your face. It's impossible to be objective. Breeder interviews are best done on the phone. Don't shop for a breeder by location. This is way too important a purchase to be decided upon in that way. I guess that's all for now. Hope this helps someone!

[jpy]

Lin B. Seems like actually two questions here?
What proportion of quality breeders have websites that invite you to shop for puppies on line.
My answer. Most reputable breeders do not have websites & if they do they are "internally" oriented to show their friends their dogs & are otherwise "educationally" oriented. This website tells you how to sort the goats from the (few?) sheep out there in the ether:
Buyers Beware
What sort of online approach will get a good breeder talking to me, so I can move along towards my goal of purchasing quality stock (pet or show)?
My answer is--a lonnnnnnnnnnng intro about YOU explaining who you are, why you are contacting me particularly & what your past, your experience, your goals & your plans are. Especially if you feel you don't have time to "chit-chat" on the phone, as THAT is how most serious breeders expect to be contacted, as most don't have time to give every casual "online shopper" a big song & dance about their dogs.
Now *all* quality breeders have the basic info on their dogs online--if they OFA,etc. what titles they have, & no serious breeder wouldn't have their pedigrees up to view as well as "stack" pictures of their dogs (at shows usually too).

But I personally wouldn't feel at all inclined to discuss my litters, prices etc. with some one on an initial inquiry who is a stranger & comes without referrence or recommendation from another's who's word I trust, and although I usually take the time to explain why this is such a poor approach to trying to purchase a show/breed prospect, as I feel many starting out are still unaware of this, most quality breeders, who are always kneee-deep in would-be buyers, would not necessarily bother, as would not see this as a serious approach by a knowledgeable buyer. What asking about price & purchase on first approach wil get you is an answer from anyone & everyone that thinks, since you want to breed, that they might squeeze a few extra dollars out of you for some dawg they are trying to unload.
Serious breeders expect to meet serious "shoppers" at shows or at their own homes. They mostly prefer the phone otherwise & only do rudimentary business by email from what I have seen. They want to look you over long before they will admit they have anything for sale.

IMO & IME *contact* by email & website is fine.
It's a great way to get breeder referral, once you do ferret out an actual reputable site. But it ain't the way to conduct business if you want to purchase a pup from a reputable breeder. They'll want to get more personal before they'll send you something they love, cherish & have great hopes for. And remember, folks, reputable breeders don't necessarily need buyers--they PLAN their litters, are popular for repeat buys, etc., so although they always WANT new, nice people, they get so many enquiries & have so few pups, the persistent & the friendly who stick out usually get the prize. Starting out by getting to know breeders & picking a mentor for your first show pup, rather than looking for that "special pup" is a lot more of a successful approach. You gotta stand out from the crowd--esp. as a novice & would-be show/breed pup buyer--you gotta have the right sort of approach that is (as most do not)--it's really not about a single dog, it is about establishing a trust with a breeder over the dogs they cherish.

JMNSHO as they say--but I know the people who are now making appointments with me to "qualify" for a puppy in 2002; who are trying to find out now if we can establish trust between each other & who otherwise are taking the time to get to know me, my dogs, my ways,etc., are surely likely to be much higher on *my* list than what seems to be a casual "form letter" online--of which--BTW--I personally get at least 25-50 every WEEK.

[LinB]

I understand what you are saying, and I do agree. I did have more to say in the e-mail as to what I am looking for and who I am. I just think that if they are going to be on line they will get alot of people e-mailing, and they should know that (Maybe having an e-mail already written for replies). I am not buying from the puter, Heavens NO. Just wondering with today being the "web world" what was out there.

My intent on e-mails was to get oriented with the "web" people. I am not looking to buy till I get a new House (that could take a while, lol) and really didn't want someone thinking they had a buyer. I was trying to find out what They were all about, and a simple e-mail told me plenty.

Yes I think ALL should meet before any talk of Actually buying is in order. And buyers Must see their prospective puppies before the 8 week mark. I couldn't imagine just driving out to pick one up, that would be like just going to the mall to buy one, to me. Even with my limited time for a long travel to shows ( I basically work at home, but my son has school, and you know the hubby can't make PBJ like I can ), I plan on taking many trips to see shows and chat with the people in person. In person chats are better for me, for I can see the person, dogs, kennel etc.

One other thing that I must say is great on the Web, is the show list. The one I go to has the list of where, when and even Who is registered at the show. I have forgone shows with only 4 Danes in it, and gone to the ones that 40 are registered (more to judge each dog against, look at handlers/owners/judges). Plus it gives results too.

Thanks all
Lin B

[Dina]

Websites are a great tool for being able to see what a breeder has to offer from afar, but I definitely would use websites as only part of the way to evaluate breeders. The rest should come from the breeders peers and published accomplishments, and from meeting them in person. When I look at a breeders website I look for what the breeder is doing for the breed & accomplishments. A website which is all or mostly geared to puppies is a sign to me that they are in it for sales rather than the love of the breed. I want to know what they are accomplishing with the dogs besides creating offspring.
Check out more info at this URL; http://www.angelfire.com/anime/gdrsw/sortbreeders.html

[Stacie]

Personally I love to go and look at kennel web pages. But, I think it is important to realize that a lot of breeders are not as computer savy as many of us are and don't have web pages. When I was looking I used the internet to find names to look up or call. If they had a web site or an e-mail address great. If not I did it the old fashion way, called on the phone. It happen to work out that neither of the two kennels that were breeding together had web sites. So, I am very glad I did not limit myself to just searching online.

[dina]

So sorry for your loss!
Dina

[Cujasky]

Thank you Dina. I have just spent an hour writing a memorial for my Sky. It was quite therapeudic. I needed something to do to alleviate my grief.

[Carolyn]

OMG, that is extremely sad!!!!!! Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

[KelliH]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-01 AT 11:55AM (PST)[p]I know of a few beeders in our area. I am 30 min. South of Boston, and have a list at home. If you would like to email me I would be happy to send them to you.
Have you gone to the Great Dane Club of New England's web site, they also have a list of area breeders, http://www.gdcne.org/breedref.htm
Also Suzanne Kelley is a great person whom I spoke with quite a few times, she can put you in contact with some reputable breeders as well. Most of them are listed on the gdcne page though.

Take care,
Kelli

PS shadows_queen@hotmail.com is my email address.

Also I forgot to mention, that IMO breeders that have a website are NOT always what they pretend to be, so be VERY careful! Something might look great on the web, and look like the city dump in real life! Don't trust what you can't physically drive to visit and see for yourself! The more people you talk to the more you will find out educationally, and always remember that if you get that weird feeling that something is not right, chances are you are correct in feeling that way.
Best of luck to you!

[LinB]

Here is a poll (my personal one) you might want to take part in.. Breeders that have a web page....What do you think about people that have Web sites for their kennel? Here is my personal point. I have been looking for a "rep" breeder, and since there is not alot of places around here in Mass, I started to look on line. Where I am looking for a certain pup, it was easy for me to eliminate the breeders that did not breed Black. For me it was easier for me to e-mail people with the questions I had and have them get back to me. I do not have alot of time to chit-chat on the phone, plus you forget what you want to ask sometimes. What I found out was that there are alot of good and bad about this. Some sites were BYB that just had alot of time to fiddle on the computer, and you found that out right away. Others were Rep breeders that had plenty to say. Upon e-mailing a few people, I found the ones that DIDN'T answer the FEW questions I had, and I deleted them off my list. My questions consisted of, How many Females do you have, how many litters a year, do you show, can you send me the pedigrees of the litters, price, health checks and a few others. Most didn't answer but a few Non-essental ?'s. And only one sent me the pedigrees, one had the pedigrees on line (that was great)......Anyone else have any imput on this? I would love to hear what you think, good idea or bad? Thank you in advance.