How did you pick your breeder?

[KF]

I was hoping more of the folks who *use* this board, would be willing to help others by posting to this message--even if a warning about how not to buy...come-on people--ya'll all have danes--how'd'ja buy them? share--some of us are shouldering the burden here & no reason all cannot tell their story here to help out their fellow DaneManiacs!?!?!jpy
Posted by KF on 07/24/00:
IP: 208.170.22.160

For fun, I'd like to take a little "survey," if you all would like to humor me (no pun intended.)

What was it about your breeder that made you want to buy your puppy from him or her?

What did you look for in a breeder?

What is important to you when "shopping breeders?"

On the flipside,
Which is higher on your priority list: Finding a breeder you feel is ethical or finding a cute puppy?

What is your definition of ethical? Reputable?

Thanks in advance, KF

[Susan]

We got our first Dane from a "friend of a friend". Since our friend trained and worked with dogs, we took her word for the quality of this breeder. We loved this Dane dearly for 11 1/2 years, but he was a walking medical bill right from the start with bloat at 1 year of age, a hot spot we wrapped and treated for years, thyroid problems, etc. etc. When we are ready to purchase our next Dane, we already knew a lot more. We ended up with breeder recommended by our vet. Our vet had worked for quite a few years at a clinic that saw a great deal of Danes. We ended up with a beautiful 13 week old female fawn puppy that is now 1 1/2 years old and very healthy.

[Gus S]

I never found a breeder!!! When my dear soul mate Beau went over the Rainbow brige I was devastated. (Beau was a yellow Lab that I took care of since he was 2 or 3 days old.) I had mentioned, while Beau was sick, that I'd always loved GD's since my parents had one years ago. So Kathy started the search, with her show connections, she put out the word for a show quality GD. We had breeders and judges from Wash. D.C. to Chicago looking for the right litter. I knew nothing about this search! Sure we had talked about getting another puppy but I was too busy taking care of Beau to make any decisions. I had Kathy's Corgis and my Golden ******ed to keep me busy too. Well that dreaded day came and went and after I put Beau to rest Kathy announced to me that my next puppy was waiting for me to pick her up in Ohio!! Our breeder was/is Linda Altomare of Hubbard, Ohio (outside Youngstown). Blues and blacks and decades of experience, we now have our second Dane from Linda and once again nothing but quality. Julliette (blue) is now two yrs and Selina (black) is only 14 1/2 weeks. When we figure out how to use the new e-camera we'll post some pictures.

[jpy]

good thing for you Gus<G>you had Kathy to do the footwork,hm? and what is the kennelname BTW of your breeder--she's not listed in the parent club
& her name just doesn't ring a bell with me. tks.jpy

[Gus S]

The kennel's name is Magic Manor and her web site is
http://www.geocities.com/danes4u/index.html

[Liz]

My dane was given to me as a rescue, malnourished and starved, and presumably beaten by the way he acted and several other problems he had. He was originally bought (I recently did my research on his background) for $150 dollars Canadian for the reason that he was a cheap Great Dane. The women who produced him apparently show their dogs and had puppies for the fun of it. No health checks obviously for that price. He was close to a year when purchased and they had a few other pups his age as well. I guess they were selling at a discount to unload these poor, unfortunate puppies. Their reasoning was that his merle colour was undesirable and that was why so cheap. Now my poor boy has paid the price for their irresponsibility with his life from genetic defects. I am doing research now and it may take me ten years to learn all I need to know before purchasing my next Dane, but the most important thing to me before colour, sex, availability,etc. is definately genetic testing, responsiblity, caring, and obviously breeding for the betterment of the breed. Even if I have to pay the extra dollars to keep my dog with me to the age of ten instead of the age of two, it is well worth it.

[jpy]

you may have saved some folks from a bad purchase & even some folks from casually producing a litter by be willing to share your experiences, which, BTW, are a story i hear every week! thanks/jpy

[Liz]

If I can save a few people the heartache that I went through, then I am happy to share my story over and over again. Even though I lost him in April I still feel the loss like it was yesterday. I hope never to have to go through this again and hopefully my research pays off for my next dane pup. Even though he was handed to me for free, my vet bills cost me far and above that. Not saying I wouldn't take him again in a hearbeat, but I would never buy a cheap Dane and support the kind of suffering that backyard breeding produces

[Typical]

For how many would this set of answers be in the ballpark?
>>What was it about your breeder that made you >>want to buy your puppy from him or her?
They had pups available when I was looking.
>>What did you look for in a breeder?
I didn't. I look for a clean, healthy looking pup.
>>What is important to you when "shopping >>breeders?"
That they are not a puppy mill.
> >Which is higher on your priority list: Finding >>a breeder you feel is ethical or finding a cute >>puppy?
Neither--availability in the color & sex I wanted was central to my search.
>>What is your definition of ethical? Reputable?
Someone who doesn't have too many litters & keeps the litters clean & acts real nice.

[Nancy]

Even though I have had Danes for about 20 years I guess I have just been fortunate that they have been healthy. Before getting a computer and reading this board I was pretty naive about buying a puppy. I read books and knew what to look for in a puppy but not so much what to look for in a breeder. Now I know. I know people shouldn't buy from a "backyard breeder" but what happens to all the puppies if no one will take them? We don't want to encourage the person to have more litters by buying their pups but we also don't want to see the pups in a bad situation. I have walked away from some litters because the person obviously didn't know what they were doing but then I felt bad to have left the puppies there.

[jpy]

nancy--the short answer is: "nothing worse than the "breeder" (BYBer) planned for them & often something MUCH better. Eventually if these BYber can't unload (that is how they see it as they get desperate, trust me) unload these pups on someone (price goes down & down as wonder stories and friendliness go up & up) they are stuck asking for help. Then rescue steps in. Rescue org's WILL take in whole litters, take good care of them, screen prospective buyers & be honest about the pups in question. A LOT better fate than that BYB type had in mind for the pup, hm?

[Nancy]

That's great about the rescue org. How far will they travel to do this? The closest one to our area is about 300 miles away. I see the same people running ads for months so I know they are not selling their pups. And like you say, they keep lowering the price.

[jpy]

dunno & depends largely on who's closest i suspect. list at ginnie.com of Dane rescues & assumably your town/region has some sort of all breed rescue? you can alwasy foster pups if you will--never BUY them, but call & offer to take them off the folks hands--usually, they will call back and/or foster homes get them when the rescue/pound calls the local rep. obviously varies a lot..so need to talk to some rescue people, preferrably in your area if you are interested & willing

[Nancy]

I know now not to even "go look at the pups" it's too hard to walk away. I have a puppy now that came from someone who wanted their female to have one litter. Several of the pups were spoken for before she had the dog mated. Her female is now spayed as mine will be. Hopefully my "Roxy" will live for many years and I won't be looking for another puppy for a long time. But when I do you can be sure I will be a much more informed buyer, asking even more ?'s.

[Tracy]

I'll be the first to admit it. And I am learning from my mistakes, thought each time I was doing something better, but no. Alot of you I am sure did get your pup from someone not so reputable or responsible and by chance nothing health wise has effected your dane. But let me tell you from to much experience on this one, it's not worth it. I don't care how much traveling or how much the cost, next dane I ever purchased will be from the right person. I don't expect to have to buy another dane for hopefully 10 years, but I have already started my search so by then maybe I'll find someone trustworthy.

[jpy]

Tracy, I'm sure all your good research will pay off next time you go to buy a dane, & thanks for sharing--as you said, we cannot correct our past mistakes, but we can learn from them (not beat ourselves up) & actually *benefit* from them, by learning where we went wrong, & how to go about things to succeed in our dreams.
Someone recently was astonished to find out I had spent ten years 9(thats right a decade) "apprenticed" to the breed before I had my first litter, & that I spent three years learning about the breed before I bought my first dane--more than 5 before I bought my first show/breed prospect. It was worth every minute, as every day has been a joy, & I don't at all regret the time spent studying, & I'm sure it will pay off for you too! regards/jpy

[Gina]

Ok, I'll bite. I'll start off by saying I didn't do it right the first time and I ended up with a "breeder" who knew less about danes than I did at the time, a puppy that doesn't even come close to the standard and is already showing signs of possible hip & thyroid trouble. I think we got pretty lucky in the temperment dept.
I of course had no guidance on feeding, training & health issues. Fortunately, I met a few really nice ladies whom I consider to be knowledgeable, reputable, and ethical. They have been very generous with their time, help, and advice.
Next time I will definitely do it differently. Since a new puppy is several years away I have plenty of time to learn & plan.
The few things I do know now are;
-I will look for what JPY describes as "sound, sane, and daney".
-I want not only health testing but documentation on the health and longevity in the line.
-I want a breeder that not only follows the breeders code of ethics, but does it because it's the right thing to do and not just because his/her peers are watching. In other words I want someone I can trust when my back is turned to do the same thing they did when I was looking.
Of course in order to find that I will have to attend shows and meet many people in the breed. Good thing I have plenty of time! :-)

[Stacie]

After getting a "returned to the breeder" (the first owners said they didn't realize he would get that BIG...DUH!) great dane that was 9 months (the same age as our other dane at the time). Any way, by 13 months we had figured out he had wobblers. We ended up having to put him to sleep.

So, when it came to finding another dane, I wanted it all; OFA, cerf, VWD, thyroid, temperment, puppies raised as a indoor pets.....my list of questions for the breeders went on and on. However, I was just as interested in the questions they asked me. Did I have a fenced yard, where would the dog be kept when we were gone, did we have children, did I plan on taking it to puppy classes..... I wanted a breeder who wanted to know how they were doing until the day they passed on (hopefully from old age). Some breeders I'm sure thought I was the buyer from **** but, I didn't want to get a puppy from or support a breeder that didn't care about the breed (and all animals) as much as I do.

[Carolyn]

Actually Stacie you sound like a perfect puppy buyer, and if any breeder thought you were the buyer from **** than to thats to bad for their puppy cause I'm sure you would have given it a wonderful home. Please other puppy buyers take note of what Stacie said!!!
Unknowningly buying a puppy with health, temperament or other problems (that could have been avoided)leads down the road to heartbreak.

[Carol]

When I need to bring in new bloodlines I always go to a breeder that OFA's. That's important to me.

[Linda]

When we started looking for a Dane puppy, I got a copy of a magazine that listed breeders (forget the name now, but it's published only once a year). I made lots of calls, talked to several breeders and ended up with the name of the one we bought ours from. I found most breeders, even though they didn't have puppies at the time, were willing to recommend others they knew did. Because there are no breeders in our town or near us, we had to ship one in (Alaska), so we wanted to use a breeder in the northwest. I called the breeder in Spokane who was recommended a few times when talking to other breeders and we ended up buying our first from her; and then our second. So that's how we found our breeder.

[jpy]

>For fun, I'd like to take a little "survey," if >you all would like to humor me(no pun intended.)
OKAY I'll play.

>What was it about your breeder that made you >want to buy your puppy from him or her?
we saw eye to eye about what i wanted to do.

>What did you look for in a breeder?
someone who raised typey, winning stock without a lot of to-do or babying them along, someone who did more than health checks--who really kept an objective eye about their "babies," screened breedstock for sturdy animals, sold pets carefully, & knew something about the difference between good, better & best.

>What is important to you when "shopping >breeders?"
see above: "what did you look for in a breeder"

>on the flipside,
>which is higher on your priority list: Finding a >breeder you feel is ethical or finding a cute >puppy?
is this a trick question or simply rhetorical?

>What is your definition of ethical? Reputable?
I have a pal who says not all reputable breeders are responsible breeders. Reputable means "having a good reputation" but with who, hm? Ethical is in the eye of the beholder, or the buyer in this case, & too often means "I am happy (or not) with my purchase? Ethical is *defined* as "in accordance with the _ACCEPTED__ principles of right & wrong...", so assumably this in America:
www.gdca.org/ethics.html
is the guidelines for an ethical breeder?

and now my question--who is that (KF) masked man?
<EG>jp&the chroma-crew: my motto<G>
"sound, sane & daney" pretty much sums
it up for me. LOL!

[KF]

I think you know - and I am certainly not a man, the last time I checked :-)

Good response jpy!

[Jul]

I picked my breeder because I live in the southeast and I had formed a relationship with this person before the litter was born. By the time the litter was born I was already emotionally attached to which ever pup I decided to buy. Bad from the start. Anyway, I purchased a puppy that I fell in love with. Upon her first visit to the vet she had a congenital eye problem and she was deaf. I was willing to deal with the eye problem but then I found out she could possibly lose her sight and she couldn't hear. I had two small children (5 & 1) at the time. I made the decision that she should be returned against my husband, who was also very much attached. Anyway...I returned the pup 3 weeks later and to this day, the breeder hasn't told me what she has done to this pup, although she promised me whe would let me know and that she wouldn't put her down. Nice huh. I now have a new Harl pup. 5 months old and very healthy. But my heart still wants to know about my first little one who took a hold of our hearts. The thing that bothers me most is this is a breeder on our board here who still breeds and has puppies available as I write. This really hurts my heart.

[Liz]

That's such a sad story. If you read my message above you will see that we went through similar heartache. My husband and I are now actively looking for a new Dane baby, and some of the breeders websites I have come across have really disturbed me. One that I found advertised on this site advertises their upcoming puppies and the stud is white with a small black spot on his side, none of their dogs are show champions, and they brag their founding bitch is a merle! Maybe it's the same breeder you talked about. Definately buyer beware!

[KF]

Yes, like you say, it is a "buyer beware" market. There are literally hundreds of breeders on the net and IMO that makes it possibly harder to find a reputable breeder. Before the net, all you might do is look in the paper, a magazine, or maybe have a referral. Not too many choices there. Now, with the net, you have so many options, it takes time to go through all your choices and interview all the prospective breeders.

If a person is breeding a non-champion, simply ask him or her why? Why is that dog not finished? Was s/he shown? How long? Can that breeder tell you in detail why or why not? I would suggest actually calling the breeder on the phone and possibly visiting their home. I know for some, it can be a hassle to go through all "this trouble" just to buy a puppy, but from the stories I've heard and the situations I've been in, it's worth it - esp. if you are serious about buying a good pet. Also, there is nothing wrong with requesting references from breeders - from puppy buyers and just personal references. Their show record will tell you alot as well. IMO if a breeder breeds dogs that are not being shown, how will they know how they stack up to the standard? And since breeding danes is only for "improving the standard," how will they know they are improving? I'm sure all who read this have heard this same bit time and time again about the "show breeders" but it cannot be emphasized enough. Likewise, you still have to be cautitious with the show breeders. They can be just as dishonest, too.

Finding a breeder is definitely a hard task. My biggest pet peeve is breeders compromising on their breeding stock - namely compromising on health issues. Would you want to be sold a dog that drops dead from cardio or develops dysplasia because that breeder thought the dog "had so much to offer" that they ignored that dog HAD (exhibited him/herself) those actual problems? No, I don't think you would. And a breeder doing something like that has their own personal agenda in mind.... not improving the breeder... much less thinking about their puppy buyers... Yep, and this happens.

So, BUYER BEWARE!

[KF]

BTW, couple typos there... I do know proper English <g> so just ignore. tks

[Liz]

After I saw this person was breeding a white Dane, I had no desire to even contact them. I am being very careful about who I want to buy a puppy from and am doing my homework now to only start up a relationship with a breeder and hope to maybe buy a puppy in the spring. Having had my last Dane "drop dead of cardio" makes me very wary about where my next puppy will come from. I have ordered the book "Great Danes, Model of Nobility" and I intend to read it cover to cover when it arrives. I am taking everything very slowly and hope to bring a high quality, healthy, pet Dane into my home within the next year. Thanks for the advice.

Liz