Should I moistened kibble?

[maxview]

Hello all and Merry Christmas...

I had a person who owns a kennel suggest I may not be feeding my Dane pup correctly and wanted to ask the list for opinions?

I am feeding Eagle Pack (23/12) twice a day and mixing one tablespoon of Pedigree can food with the kibble.
Gunther usually eats about 3/4 of it at one time then finishes off later in the morning. For supper I do the same, kibble mixed with the can food and by 8 pm it is usually all gone.
I feed elevated off the ground and watch to see he dosen't go and gulp a ton of water after eating his kibble.

This person said I should be moistening all the kibble so it expands in the dish otherwise eating too dry of kibble can cause bloat if he drinks water after eating...

Could I get some advice on the best way to feed? We have had no
problems so far....knock on wood...
But if there is a better way I would change my feeding methods. Want to do what is right for Gunther, to avoid any problems.

PS..I have also noticed since I have started letting him chew on those really big raw knuckle bones with the marrow and bits of meat still on it his poopies has firmed up really well and there seems to be a little less of it??? Not sure why but hey I am not complaining..

Thanks

Barb and Gunther...;)

[danelvr]

hello,

i feed kash three times a day, eagle pack, 23/12, elevated, no water or canned food. we also give him knuckle bones, but also rawhide, and a variety of toys

i dont liek moistening food, cause when he doesnt eat it all, it has to be thrown away or refridgerated, and we dont have a large ref. so we dont do that. anyway, my vet said it did not matter either way, as long as he is eating:) but there are probably opposing op.

[JLI]

You will find many many differing opinions on what to do or not to do, you need to pick what you feel comfortable with and stick to it as you research.

I found a very good dane breeders web site recommendation one I can live with. I feed elevated (for comfort only, no coorelation to bloat has been proven), I feed 2-3 x daily, I feed good quality kibble and yes, I add water but give it right away. Sometimes they eat right away, sometimes they wait and the kibble expands, then they eat. In warmer weather, I don't leave the kibble down for too long when wet if they haven't eaten.

After my Sam bloated, I ground his kibble up, wet it to total expansion and fed 3-5 small meals daily. For my otherwise healthy dogs that don't gulp their food, I don't worry as much.

[Tracytj]

I moisten kibble and feed imediately after discovering that it reduced my boxer X from vomiting after meals. I've been doing it ever since to avoid scooping up dogfood yack. With Justice, my scrawny rescue, I really needed to because he gulped dry food and then would drink large quantities of water afterwards--scary. The food around our house doesn't sit for any length of time--with a dane, a boxer/lab, a chessie/husky, and four cats, the rule is "If you leave it, you lose it."

Tracy

[witzn]

1 - your breeder should have instructed you how to feed your puppy.

2 - There are varying opinions on this, but a popular method, that I follow is:

Feeding 2x daily, pups 3x. Kibble w/ warm water added with addition of some sort of meat. Fed after preparation, left for dog for about 15 - 20 minutes then removed.

Even soaked kibble left overs can be refrigerated for the next meal, although unless mixed with fresh won't be very appetizing for a picky eater.

I would not let them decide to finish it later, I would only offer food at set meal times.

I do raise the food. I am not sure the age of your puppy, so am unsure what the point of the tablespoon of canned is for. If you plan on basically an all kibble diet I would teach the puppy now to enjoy that.

3 - even if you decide not to soak the kibble at all I would suggest soaking it for your own info to see how big it does get in their stomach, as kibbles vary in this.

sandy

[DellaDane]

<--- MERLIN -- http://www.angelfire.com/blues/greatdanes


Im in no way a professional, but here is my opinion. I would never moisten food. Here's why. I know a dane owner who moistens food. She soaks the food with warm water and feeds soaked food for the dog's whole life. I recently got a chance too see a dane that belonged to this person. The dog is 4 years old and has never eaten dry kibble. Her teeth are in horryifying shape. She has what is called severe periodontitis. Her breath is foul, and she is a very, very picky eater, she will also not chew anything hard, because she doesnt know how to eat anything hard. Also in a college class recently a speech was given by a person in the animal health field... She concluded that if you soak your dogs food, they will get severe tooth decay and plaque, which harbors bacteria and can travel into the blood stream infecting the blood or specific vital organs causing death if not caught in time. In my opinion if you feed dry food, they have healhier teeth, are less picky eaters, is less work for you. (the food expands in the stomach anyway)I also would think that soaked food would sit heavier in a dog's stomach than dry food. Although there is no specific link to bloat and soaking or not soaking food, there are other dangers to think about that can hurt your furbaby, other than bloat. I know alot of people that have lost their dogs to bloat and most soaked food. Coincidence??

[witzn]

coincidence? I would assume so, since there have been no studies posted saying soaking or non soaking causes or increases the liklihood of bloat. You could as easily say that having a great dane will increase your chance of dealing with bloat.

As to your speaker's conclusion (and your own) that a dog that has been fed soaked kibble has bad teeth and will die of horrible infections:

There are things called "bones", as well as other chew toys that will not swell in the dog's gut.

I did not see anyone here advocating soaking the kibble into a mush form.

I have met many many dogs owned by a variety of people that were fed soaked kibble their entire (and often long) lives and
they did not suffer from bad teeth or oral hygiene. I also know breeders that have been successful in the breed in everyway for decades that demand a dog be fed soaked kibble it's entire life.

But..............as was posted, it's a matter of opinion/ choice.

sandy

[WDM]

"What and how should I feed my Dane"? That is one of the most often asked questions. I have been reading the question and the answers for about 4 years and many of the opinions have been from very learned and experienced owners and breeders. I just can't say that I have found any consensus as to the "correct" answer to the question. The only thing I will say with certainty is that there are many and varied foods and ways of feeding that have been used with sucess. Also, with certainty, I will say that there are many who are eager to tell all who will listen exactly how it should be done. The "dry food vs wet food" is a good example of the controversy. Some insist that the ONLY way to feed is with moistened food and others will say with just as much certainty that food should be fed dry. Whos is right? BOTH! I too have come to conclusions about feeding. However my view is a bit different. My view is that, as long as you feed a reasonably good quality diet, the best answer is "what works for you and your Danes". Danes, as well as other dogs, and humans too, for that matter, react differently to various foods. Some are fat, some are thin. Some are energentic and others prefer to lie around. Some are willing eaters and some are picky. Some have bad teeth and others have good. Some are alergic and some are not. What works well for one may not for another. As advice, I will say this; feed your puppy the diet that your breeder recommends. The breeder knows their dogs best and knows what works for them. As you gain in knowledge and experience you will form opinions and may choose to try other things to see if you see improvements. Stick with lists such as this one (there are many others that are very good too) and read the discussions and add to your store of knowledge. There is much to be gained by doing this. Recently I switched my Danes to a raw food diet at the recommendation of the breeder. I feed them 1 3/4 lbs of raw chicken necks or sometimes legs and thighs or backs every day. I feed this first thing in the morning. In the evening, shortly before they go to bed, I feed them about a cup of the vegetable mix and about a half cup of either a cooked rice and beans mix or cooked pumpkin or yogurt. This has been working well for all three and to say that they are eager eaters is to greatly understate the reception. My male, Raven, is so excited to get his chicken in the morning that his teeth chatter while waiting for his bowl to be filled. All three clean their bowls in about 30 seconds. The evening meal is eaten with as much enthusiasm and as quickly. Their energy is excellent. Their coats are beautiful and their health is good. One problem that I had with Raven is cured also. He often used to vomit bile in the morning but has not done so since changing to the raw diet. I still feed a small amount of ProPlan, dry, in the middle of the day if they are a little thin. Serves as a weight regulator. The biggest drawback to the raw diet is the time it takes. I use about 80 pounds a month per dog of the chicken which I get frozen in 40 lb boxes and is a lengthy process to thaw, weigh, bag, and put in freezer. The various vegetables I grind in a food grinder attachment on my wife's mixer and I then puree the mix in a blender, and mix in oils, probiotics, vitamins, and garlic. I freeze this in containers also and thaw in microwave as needed. Water? I always keep their water bowl filled.


Duane with
Ch. Geisha, Iris and Raven in
Saginaw Michigan
Great Lakes...Great Danes
http://duanemorgan99.tripod.com/DuanesDanes/


Duane with
Ch. Geisha, Iris and Raven in
Saginaw Michigan
Great Lakes...Great Danes
http://duanemorgan99.tripod.com/DuanesDanes/

[JLI]

Great post of clarification Duane and Sandy.

Just to add to the discussion, I would never rely on food or chew toys to keep my dogs teeth clean. You don't rely on apples for your teeth. Just as you should clip their nails and clean their ears and give a good brushing every week, you should also check and clean their teeth about monthly. Our dogs mouths are big! It's very easy to either use a washcloth, or toothbrush & toothpaste, or dental scaler to keep the tarter off their teeth.

I really like Duane's explanation to follow your breeders recommendation (if you went to a good breeder). It's very hard to say one method or food works for all because all dogs are different. My 2 danes did better on 2 different dog foods. Each dog is an individual and will have unique variations.

[rlynnd]

"Whos is right? BOTH! I too have come to conclusions about feeding.
However my view is a bit different. My view is that, as long as you feed a reasonably good quality diet, the best answer is "what works for you and your Danes". Danes, as well as other dogs, and humans too, for that matter, react differently to various foods. Some are fat, some are thin. Some are energentic and others prefer to lie around..."

Excellent post Duane! I have 3 danes...Ferris, Sadie and Sophie and all 3 require totally different feeding regimens. Ferris, my young male, is very picky, very active and I am constantly trying to get weight on him so he gets a mixture of kibble, hamburger and other weight gaining "goodies". His meal is always mixed with water to make it nice and juicy and flavorful. My girl Sophie is the complete opposite...in the horse world she would be labeled an "easy keeper"...she would be fat on rice cakes! Ok...not quite but she tends to be on the pudgy side and I have to watch her weight very carefully. She gets fed dry kibble 2X a day. And Sadie...ahhhh if only they were all like her. She is free fed dry kibble and has been since she was about 10 months old. She has always maintained perfect weight, never too fat, never too thin. 3 different danes...3 different feeding programs.

[gmac]

I have never soaked the dogs food, but I do add water before I feed. Maggie never seemed to drink enough water when we brought her home, and it's a good way to get them to consume a little more. The food doesn't expand too much, and this way she's getting the crunchies along with an extra amount of water.

[danelvr]

LOL, there are quite a few opinions on feeding. most new comers, including myself, have no idea !! and they are just lookin for suggestions, that mite steer them in the *right* direction.

LOL, as for bad teeth, i brush kashs teeth every other nite. he adores it.LOL, as for it causing dental problems, i have no idea bought that. i just no that my refigerater would smell like doggy food, and we really have no room, for kashs monstrous bowls in it, and that is why WE dont feed moistened food. we've done it before, but it got to the point where the dog would not eat dry food without the water@! ! go figure;) LOL anyway, i think as long as you feed a low protein food, you should be fine whether you feed dry or wet:) good luck

[rowan]

My Daisy eats moistened (not soggy, just a little added h20) plus half a small can of dog food twice a day. I used to freak out somewhat when i first got her because everything i read says to feed 3 x's a day. She absolutely refuses to eat in the middle of the day. So I began adding the canned food mostly for my benifit. She will eat her kibble without it though. There has only been 2 times that she asked for food in the middle of the day ( by sitting in front of the storage container and scratching and talking to it) so i have fed her then with out the canned food.

Basically I think (opinion inserted) that you can look and see how everyone does things and then spend a lot of time observing your baby to see what is the best for your baby. Also check the poop. Not sure if I read it here of if the doc. told me. Their body should be utilizing most of what goes in. so if the output is huge you need to change what is going in.

Penny & Daisy

[gmac]

Another fussy eater? I couldn't believe it when we brought Maggie home, at 8 weeks, and she wouldn't eat lunch. She was so very thin that her ribs showed, but still I couldn't persuade her to eat that noon meal. They are definately all different!

[ksrenaud]

:'( I reply to this as I once again look to discusions for answers on bloat. The first time was when we first brought our baby home. And now, after I sadly just lost him to this disease yesterday. I thought I was doing everything nessessary and became too comfortable with his eating habits as I stopped monitering them as close as I maybe should have been. He would eat 2X daily dry Eagle with water on the side, he was not a fast eater and would not gulp his food down.
Most of the time he would just get his dry with nothing mixed in. This rare time he was given a little leftovers mixed in. I did not feed him myself as we were very busy after just moveing into a new house. But my father did comment on how fast he finished his food. I was dealing with a contractor at the time and totaly forgot about that being the first possible cause of bloat. He was quiet that evening was let outside and back in again and went to sleep. a couple of hours went by and he came out to the kitchen vomiting and I did notice that it was odd that the vomit was not food just dark liquid. I let him outside and cleaned up the mess and noticed he did not bark to come back in as he usually would. I went to get him and he was laying down with his stomach large and tight. I immediatly brought him in and called the vet. They had me bring him in and checked him they said he was bloating but not critical since his color was ok and he could still walk, they refered me to another off hours vet hospital so he could have his operation and would be monitered through the night. I had to travel another half hour to get there. By the time they opened him up it had been too late his stomach had suffered too much damage beeing cut off from blood.

I tell this story in hopes it may help someone else. Some things I would do differently...I used too feed my dane yogurt becuase I head it was good for him but i had gotton away from it. I now have learned this may help digestion and prevent bloat along with greens supplement. My dane may have been under some stress do to our move, another possible culprit to bloat. I feed my dane from a raised dish... I have just read a study that eating from a raised dish may contribute to bloat NOT PREVENT IT. I also would have taken him straight to another Vet Hospital that is open 24hours had I know I might be reffered to a different Emergency Hospital due to the time of the evening. Knowing that time is crital with boat.

These are some of the things I have learned differently since I first brought my puppy home 2 1/2 years ago. Mostly that bloat may not be due to one thing but a combination of things.

I will miss my puppy very much. This is my second dane my first I lost 20yrs ago to Worblers disease at age 2. I doesnt seem fair such a beautiful breed be so misunderstood or difficult to keep.

Sharon

[rowan]

Sharon, I am so sorry to hear of your loss.


Penny & Daisy

[Bev_K]

Sharon, I'm so sorry to hear of your recent loss. Losing a precious one is so hard.

>culprit to bloat. I feed my dane from a raised dish... I
>have just read a study that eating from a raised dish may
>contribute to bloat NOT PREVENT IT.

I did want to comment on the above part of your message. This topic has been discussed at length and the study you mention has also been discussed. IMO, there is no proof that a raised bowl contributes to bloat. If we think about it, most Danes probably eat out of a raised bowl (for convenience....giraffe drinking water picture doesn't look too comfortable to me <G>). And, it's common for Danes to bloat. But, is it really fair to say that the two are related?

I still feed out of a raised dish and will continue to do so.

Please don't beat yourself up over "could haves." Because no one has proven anything is a direct contribution to bloat, you really can't say that if you would have done X then it wouldn't have happened. Yes, there are cautionary things we all do, but even the most cautious person could lose a Dane to bloat.

Again, my condolences.

Take care,
Bev

[MP]

How especially devastating to loose a beloved dog that way. Sharon, we are all so sorry.

If the study is the one I read, it was based on just a few breeds and then data was extrapolated to additional breeds. Seems to me the argument then becomes circular -- dogs fed from raised dishes are more prone to bloat because dogs prone to bloat are more likely to be fed from raised dishes.

mp

[ksrenaud]

Thanks for all the kind words. I'm really glad I had a place to go to unload after this tragedy.

And I certainly hope I did not make anyone too overly afraid of this disease that they can't enjoy their dane. But I do think maybe we can learn from each others experiences especially when there seems to be such a lack of definate information on the subjet.

Thanks again,
Sharon

[Carolyn]

So very sorry for your loss Sharon. How old was your boy?
Carolyn
Divine Acres Great Danes

[Cujasky]

Sharon, I just read your story and I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for being strong and trying to help others.

[ksrenaud]

He was 2&1/2 yrs. All black w/ a white chest and paws...just beautiful. I am kinda struggling with getting another dane or not but, we just love em. Maybe we'll look into a Rescue Group. I couldn't save my own big boy but maybe I can save another.

Sharon

[ksrenaud]

Debbie,

I saw your webpage on Sky-girl.
Absolutely beautiful. Sorry for your loss.

Sharon