Opinions Appreciated

[TroutRiver]

So I've been curious for awhile how Trout's conformation "stacks up" (no pun intended) to show quality danes. I know that she's not a show dog. In fact my trainer thinks it's likely that she was a puppy mill/pet shop pup. I didn't give anyone money or support any bad businesses by adopting her, so I am not offended by this claim at all (feel free to agree or disagree with her). I am interested in all of your honest opinions on her comformation/color/body condition. I will not take offense. What do you all think?

Sorry, this is my first ever attempt at a free stack, I had no idea what I was doing :confused:

In this first picture, her back end was closer to the camera than her front end (my bad) so it makes her look taller in the back than she really is...

http://dolforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=539&pictureid=3984

http://dolforum.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=539&pictureid=3983

[MyDaneBaby]

overall nothing gravely wrong with her. I'd say her worst fault is her ear set. She might have a dip in her topline, but hard to tell with the background. Can't tell her head because there are not good side shots. She has a nice rear, nice front, level topline. Might be a bit narrow overall, but can't really tell. If she were a mantle, she'd have perfect markings (mantle as in black / white)

[fawndane83]

I chose the second picture to critique from, since the first doesn't do her any justice.

Nice front, nice depth of chest, especially for a female. Overall she looks balanced and has breed type. The croup is too steep and tail set is too low. Hocky rear. Incorrect ear set. Lip could be a little more squared off. In the first picture she looks really high in the rear, but I think it's just where you were standing when you took the photo.

Color aside, she may not be show quality, but her conformation is not that bad, all things considered. Why would your trainer think she's from a mill or pet shop?

[TroutRiver]

Thanks!

The trainer thinks she was a puppy mill pup mostly because of my "background story" of how I got her. The family that I got her from was very low income and did not seem like well educated people (not to be rude...but I have more than one bone to pick with them). They said they hadn't had her very long. The guy who sold her to them (for $200) bought her when she was a puppy, didn't know how to train her (and ended up hitting her a lot and yelling...not training) then decided that she had gotten too big, and sold her. From this story, my trainer thought it was likely that she was either from a BYB, or was one of those "rare platinum harlequins" at the pet store. I might also add that the online add I responded to about her said she was a harlequin, and a "VERY BIG" great dane. Trout, in actuality, is a pretty small dane, even for a female (not to mention she was about 25 pounds lighter when they had her).

Trainer also said that her conformation, while not terrible, is not that great, which makes her think she was probably a cheap, and not particularly well bred pup (like I said, none of this is offensive to me, I took her out of a desperate situation and didn't give anyone any money for her...I know nothing about her past or where she came from besides what I just said, all I can do is speculate)

I have noticed though, like Mitch said, that if she was black and white she would have good mantle markings. Does this mean someone was breeding with some real intention, or does this happen by mistake a lot? (I have heard that harlequins are considered "better" for the show ring if their markings match up with a mantle pattern...like Trout without the gray...)

Also...you can't see this from the pictures, but she's got a couple spots on her (at the base of her ears and on the sides of her shoulders right above her front legs) where she's got tan-ish "highlights." Does that mean she's got fawn somewhere in her lines?

Sorry, this is fading into color/genetics type stuff, which I know nothing about. I'm just curious to see if there's anything I can find out about her breeding just based on her physical appearence.

And what does it mean that she has a "hocky rear?"

Thanks for your input :)

[fawndane83]

I'm no expert on color (I'm sure someone else could chime in here) but there is no way to determine the "quality" or intention of her breeding by just looking at her color or markings. Harlequin breedings may produce merles. But that still doesn't say very much.

A hocky rear is when the rear legs, instead of pointing straight ahead, turn out instead (that's kind of an overly simplified explanation). There's a website link with good pictures of conformation faults on it. Let me see if I can find it...